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Banici and Jago
Topic Started: Feb 4 2018, 07:38 PM (639 Views)
scenario_dave

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There is an interesting thread earlier that asks who was Cenedi's partner. It got me to think how did Banici and Jago become partners? Since Banici and Jago are father and daughter they must be around 20 years apart in age. Clearly they weren't partners right out of training.

I would bet that out of training both Banici and Jago were somewhat like Lucasi and Veijico. Kind of loose cannons but brilliant. We know that Banici and his first partner in training didn't get along. I'm guessing that once that partnership fell apart the guild would have needed to get Banici a new partner.

On a total, unsupported guess, I think that they would have assigned Banici a older more sedate partner who was still guild. Maybe someone who was planning a career in guild management who the guild masters felt needed more field work under his belt. So 17 year old Banici has a 25 year old partner. The partnership works well. Both are talented but Banici tends to be somewhat reckless and partner is more methodical. When Banici is 19 or 20 a woman offers him a term marriage with the goal of a child. He accepts, therefore Jago. 17 years pass. Banici is now in his mid 30s and his partner is in his 40s. Jago has completed guild training. The guild decides that it is time for the partner to have the career inside the guild that he has always wanted now that he has had real world experience and the now more experience and controlled Banici given a partner who is a wild as he was when he was her age. She respects him and will listen to him.

Fast forward a few years. Jago and Banici are assigned to Bren. Jago is a few years younger than Bren and is attracted to him. Banici is not opposed. But when they first meet Bren, he thinks that they are about the same age. I think that Banici looks younger than he is, maybe early 30's because he is in such great physical shape. Jago who is in her early twenties at this point, makes herself look a few years older than she is to stop questions. A team consisting of a person in her late twenties and one in his early thirties create less questions than one with a partner in her late teens with a man in his mid thirties would.

Banici and Jago both were amused that Bren really never realized that that they really were so far apart in ages until they told him that they were father and daughter. I would be surprised if Bren just kind of assumed that Banici and Jago were 5 or 10 years apart in age right up to when they decided to tell him they were father and daughter.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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It's a subject dear to my heart, but alas, heavy with mystery. I still hope (probably vainly) that Cherryh will drop us some more info on them. It was why I was so pleased to learn a little more history regarding Banichi's background, and that he and Algini were about the same age as they were in training together (with Haikuti). I was kind of hoping she would let us in on more of it.
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hrhspence
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I think so too, Neco. A standalone short story about Banichi's training would be very amusing.
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scenario_dave

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Neco the Nightwraith
Feb 6 2018, 07:24 AM
It's a subject dear to my heart, but alas, heavy with mystery. I still hope (probably vainly) that Cherryh will drop us some more info on them. It was why I was so pleased to learn a little more history regarding Banichi's background, and that he and Algini were about the same age as they were in training together (with Haikuti). I was kind of hoping she would let us in on more of it.
I wonder if outsiders assume the partnerships are Banici with Algini and Jago with Tano due to the ages.
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lynxlacelady
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I agree.
"I think so too, Neco. A standalone short story about Banichi's training would be very amusing."
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Neco the Nightwraith
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hrhspence
Feb 6 2018, 03:44 PM
I think so too, Neco. A standalone short story about Banichi's training would be very amusing.
I would read a whole novel about Banichi's life up to joining Bren's service.

I may have an unhealthy interest. :rofl:
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lynxlacelady
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And I would like to hear what Banichi thinks about Bren during their first few weeks together.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Probably a lot of "What have I gotten myself into?" moments. :P
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Neco the Nightwraith
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I remember a brief reference in Foreigner to Bren's early relationship with Banichi and Jago. I believe he had met Banichi first, and had more experience in interacting with him, shall we say. Jago was an entity that he was much more unfamiliar with in the beginning. Or so I gathered, anyway. That was when they were still in Tabini's employ, before they had cast their lots in with Bren's.

Another reference (from Protector, I think) was when Algini told them the background between Banichi and Haikuti, after Banichi had gone off to get his shoulder/arm stitched up. After their falling out, Haikuti, clearly held in favor by Shishoji, got the good assignments and Banichi, clearly in major disfavor, received not very good ones- until Tabini, through one means or another, pulled him into his service.

In the most recent information we've been getting, one could assume that maybe Banichi- older than his aiji, possibly feeling a bit jaded, having been used to assignments that were not incredibly fantastic, maybe even feeling generally like he might be getting the short straw in the Guild- found himself in a much higher paying/higher ranking position in a very sudden turn of events.

I think that once Tabini became aiji (at age 23) he immediately sacked Wilson, and then shuffled through a couple more options sent to him before finally settling on Bren (also 23 years old). How long this process took I don't know (She may have said, but I don't remember it).

This could suggest that Banichi was as new to his position with Tabini as Tabini was as aiji, and Bren was as paidhi, and he might have been- if you'll pardon my expression- shitting bricks.

How long Bren has been paidhi since the beginning of Foreigner is never made clear, but it can't have been too long.
Edited by Neco the Nightwraith, Feb 12 2018, 03:03 AM.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Which makes you wonder if, in Foreigner, Banichi was really feeling the pressure when it came to keeping Bren alive, or at least protecting him from himself, lol. In the reaction to Bren's midarga poisoning after tea with the Dowager, Banichi behaves rather like a scared father... or a scared person who was supposed to be keeping another person alive and knowing that he came terribly close to failing that assignment. He covered it well with anger towards Bren and his foolishness, but how much of that anger was meant for himself?

I really wonder just how bad assignments get when it comes to the Guild. He must have been low man on the totem pole for quite a while before Tabini swept him up. Now, though, he seems to be very high ranking, and his name/face very well known in the Guild. An entirely different situation to his early life.
Edited by Neco the Nightwraith, Feb 12 2018, 03:18 AM.
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lynxlacelady
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Neco
"Probably a lot of "What have I gotten myself into?" moments"

In FOREIGNER, just after the intruder is chased off, he says something like, "we failed you tonight". Possibly, in addition to the quote above, he is also thinking "what kind of an unpredictable nutcase am I shepherding?". But at some point, before they all get on the airplane, he decides Bren is worth the trouble.

In one of the books (I can't remember just exactly which one) Ilisidi says (or Cajeiri reports she says) that humans don't have manchi, but something inside them which attaches them to particular individuals and they consequently act always in that person's interest, whether the person wants them to or not. Ilisidi witnessed Bren's "rescue" of Banichi after his ankle broke. She saw that Banichi didn't want this, but that Bren persisted. Presumably at some point she told Tabini. And Banichi and Jago themselves probably reported to Tabini, including this. It takes all the events at Malguri and the subsequent mecheiti ride for them to understand it.

And your points about Banichi's attitude after Bren's poisoning are very apt. And I agree on the novel about Banichi.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Especially in the way that he "disciplined" Bren after his poisoning. He struck him across the ear, the way a parent of a certain generational upbringing might cuff a child who is misbehaving, while scolding/lecturing him that "this isn't Shejidan, things don't come in plastic packages!"
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jlsjlsjls

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He struck him across the ear


I remember that when I read, for the first time, Ilisidi giving Cajeiri the ear discipline, I immediately flashed back to Banichi doing that to Bren and it was an "Oh!" moment that changed parts of that first book for me ... Banichi regarding Bren as acting like a child, so he must be a child (in mind if not in body but Bren's physical size likely also contributed to instinctive perception of him as juvenile ... even the baddies had a moment of seeing him as a kid before their brains kicked in), and thus needed to be treated/disciplined/taught like a child. Fortunately Bren proved that he actually could think and behave like an adult when things got bad.**

**Not the attempted Banichi-rescue of course, but later when in the hands of the enemy.

P.S. I also wonder if Algini, having attained fairly high rank in the Guild, might have had something to do with Banichi & Jago getting their assignment to Tabini, since Algini would know exactly how good Banichi really was at his profession despite the rotten assignments.
Edited by jlsjlsjls, Feb 15 2018, 03:13 AM.
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Xheralt
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There is absolutely nothing to indicate that Banichi (with or without Jago) was ever considered a "loose cannon". Remember, Lucasi was a loose cannon only because he (and to a lesser extent, his sister) was having a bit of a man'chi-crisis, insomuch as they weren't immediately "attaching" to Cajeiri, and he'd screwed up, and was trying to make a "grand gesture" (which Banchi called him out on!) to compensate for it. I don't think Banichi has ever been saddled with that sort of uncertainty. I can see, after the falling-out with Haikuti (and maybe a bad -- Shoshigi-driven -- assignment or two beyond that), how he would be extremely careful about choosing a partner after that, seeking someone who clearly would have his back. Because Guild oaths alone didn't seem to be enough any more. Getting assigned to the heir (while Valasi lived) is not something for a reckless Assassin. Banichi and Jago are just too good. In fact, assigning them to Bren may have been Shishogi's way of weakening Tabini's personal guard (anticipating the eventual coup attempt) in a way that no-one could possibly object to.

Cenedi's regular partner would have to be Eastern Guild. Either deceased and not replaced, or he's such a major presence that anyone would partner with him. In fact, he is such a tremendous resource, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that partnering him is a temporary (student) assignment, and after he teached them what is needful, they "graduate" to other Eastern-Guild assignments. Remember, Eastern Guild has some habits that are not main-Guild; this could be one of them.
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scenario_dave

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Feb 15 2018, 04:34 AM
There is absolutely nothing to indicate that Banichi (with or without Jago) was ever considered a "loose cannon". Remember, Lucasi was a loose cannon only because he (and to a lesser extent, his sister) was having a bit of a man'chi-crisis, insomuch as they weren't immediately "attaching" to Cajeiri, and he'd screwed up, and was trying to make a "grand gesture" (which Banchi called him out on!) to compensate for it. I don't think Banichi has ever been saddled with that sort of uncertainty. I can see, after the falling-out with Haikuti (and maybe a bad -- Shoshigi-driven -- assignment or two beyond that), how he would be extremely careful about choosing a partner after that, seeking someone who clearly would have his back. Because Guild oaths alone didn't seem to be enough any more. Getting assigned to the heir (while Valasi lived) is not something for a reckless Assassin. Banichi and Jago are just too good. In fact, assigning them to Bren may have been Shishogi's way of weakening Tabini's personal guard (anticipating the eventual coup attempt) in a way that no-one could possibly object to.

Cenedi's regular partner would have to be Eastern Guild. Either deceased and not replaced, or he's such a major presence that anyone would partner with him. In fact, he is such a tremendous resource, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that partnering him is a temporary (student) assignment, and after he teached them what is needful, they "graduate" to other Eastern-Guild assignments. Remember, Eastern Guild has some habits that are not main-Guild; this could be one of them.
When I said loose cannons, I was thinking that the guild considered him to be a loose cannon at the time he finished training. He had gotten into a fight with his partner and a man died. I'm sure that Shoshigi and Haikuti did everything they could to make Banichi look like someone who was talented but flawed. He didn't always follow the rules. He let a man die because he panicked under pressure... What other excuse would Shoshigi have to constantly give Banichi all of the bad jobs. Shoshigi ran the assignment department but he still had to have a nice ready made excuse if questions did happen to come up.

We don't know how partners are chosen. We really don't know how much of it is decided by the individuals involved and how much by the guild. The Heir's original four guild are brother/sister pairs. Algini and Tano were paired up later for reasons unknown. We now know that Algini and Banichi are similar in age because they were in training together. Since Banichi is Jago's father he has to be at least 15 or 20 years older than she is. He had to have a partner when he first left training. We know that Shoshigi was intentionally giving some Lords the least capable guild members. I'd bet he assigned Banichi an older much less competent partner to try to make Banichi look bad. He uses the excuse that Banichi needs an older more experience partner to keep him in line. Knowing Banichi, he was the de facto leader of the two within months. He made the partner look good rather than letting the partner make him look bad. He's guild, he had to be good at something.

Banichi kept getting bad jobs and he kept doing them well even with a poor partner. People who knew him knew he was very competent. He started developing a reputation on his own. I'd also assume that many guild members knew how good Banichi was and put in a good word with their Lords when they needed to hire some guild. Over time he developed his own reputation with guild members and with Lords.

I'm assuming that partners are somewhat flexible. Brother/Sister are allowed to be partners if they are deemed to be suitable. It would probably be useful that they were in the same manchi. It seems like Algini and Tano were placed together by the guild, although I may be wrong. When Jago finished training, Banichi probably asked for her to be his partner and the guild accepted the pairing because of the same reason they accept brother/sister pairings. Banichi had developed enough of a reputation within the guild by that time that it would have been difficult for Shoshigi to stop the pairing. I'm also assuming that Banichi's original partner left around then. That's why I guessed that Banichi's original partner was older. Banichi/20, original partner/50ish, twenty years later partner is pushing 70 and ready to retire or get transferred to a paperwork job inside the guild.

With a new partner who was near his level of talent, Jago, Banichi shined. His record after training was excellent and he had the recommendation of guild close to the Aji and of other lords.

I have two sides to the Cenedi question. On one side, I wouldn't be surprised if one of Cenedi's jobs is to polish up guild members who are being considered to work in a major house. Give the final touches to an otherwise excellent guild member. Teach them the things that the guild doesn't.

On the other side, would Illisidi allow her guild to permanently leave her service for the service of another lord. Loan them and get ready made spies, sure, but allow them to leave permanently, I'm not so sure.
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