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The Last Jedi; Started without spoilers but morphs
Topic Started: Dec 18 2017, 01:08 AM (538 Views)
Kokipy

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So my 16 yr old and I saw it yesterday. Just FYI, we loved it. But I donít want to incite debate. I just have one question, which isnít really a spoiler: how did that bomb thing work? No gravity in space, so, when you open the bomb bay donít the bombs have to be propelled somehow toward their target? These just seemed to drop down ala WWII bomb bays.
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starexplorer
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Great point. Saw it today.

I looked into it and was informed that ďThis is addressed in The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary. The bombs are repulsed from the rack by electro-magnetism (like a rail gun) and then drawn to their metal target by magnetic attraction.

Bombs don't technically "drop" in microgravity, but are impelled from their racks by sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip. The bombs are then drawn magnetically to their unfortunate targets.ď
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Kokipy

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Thank you, Star. I am glad that they anticipated my concerns. That resource looks like a good one to have handy.

I hope you enjoyed it. We are still talking of it here. She noticed a lot of details I missed, and I suggested some nuances she thought were intriguing. Our common enjoyment of these movies has been a thrill for me over the past few years.
We both enjoyed the Onion review titled: "New Star Wars Film Disappoints Die-Hard Nien Nunb Fans." highly recommended :)
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Xheralt
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Wait, you mean the Dreadnought wasn't sufficiently large enough to have its own gravity well? These First Order engineers are slackers, slackers, I tell you!

My official nonspoilery comments:

  1. The First Order is better at being a totalitarian empire than the Empire itself was.
  2. Its frightening competence was thematically foreshadowed in Rogue One.
  3. The New Republic appears to have been distressingly short-lived.
  4. The movie has some moments the fans clearly hoped for, but they don't last.
  5. The movie has other moments that muddy the waters further, as befits a "middle movie"
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the mule
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Saw it yesterday and enjoyed it immensely. When Luke emerged from the personal bombardment some wag at the back of the cinema shouted "Missed!" Which occasioned some laughter. I'm betting we are going to be seeing the stable boy again.
Failure, our best teacher is!, definitely
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Kokipy

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We just went to see it again and loved it, again! Really great movie.
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starexplorer
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While Iím not up for getting into the details at the moment (just having completed a cold icy 4 hour drive back from Boston), I feel duty bound given the praise to mention that I thought it was a disapppointment. Not that there was nothing to like, but over all, I felt it did not deliver enough that was new, interesting, fresh, or relevant, and too much was tired reworking of old archetypes and themes. I feel like this brand has too little to bring at this point and itís lingering on well past itís prime. Or to torment me personally 😏
I apologize for any offense. But saying so feels like a matter of honor.
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hrhspence
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Yes, Star. Remember, the main audience for SW is 11-year-old boys.
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joekc6nlx
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kendo bain sidhe
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While I enjoyed the first three releases (Episodes IV, VI, and V in that order of enjoyment), I didn't much care for the "prequels" of I, II, and III. The last one I watched was III, and haven't gone to see any of the others.

Maybe because I lost interest in the SW universe, or because it just didn't seem to hold to the original ideas (in my opinion), I don't particularly care to go.

One of my friends saw it yesterday, told me the spoiler, since I told him I wasn't going to see it, anyway, so as far as I'm concerned, the SW storyline has ended.

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Kokipy

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Just to defend our views: we felt it was very new and exciting, actually, given the constraints of the SW universe. We felt it thrust vigorously away from the roots of the franchise, and points us in new and interesting directions. The force is not a power belonging to the Jedis, and you don't have to be in the skywalker or kenobi bloodlines to sense it and use it. We loved it that Rey is from nowhere, really. That was a real move in a different direction. We loved Luke's role, entirely believable and convincing. We were not disappointed to see he remains as impatient and human as he was as a youngster. Impulsive, he is.
We loved Kylo Ren's struggle, and thought Adam Driver was utterly compelling in the role. Rey was also awesome.
In general, the acting was so much better than in the prequels and frankly, in my view, better than in the original trilogy, much as I loved them. I don't think this one was actually aimed at 11 year old boys, which you can tell by how much the 11 year old boy fandom generally seems to have hated it. Not that that is where you guys here who didn't enjoy it are coming from at all. But much of the hate seems to have to do with disappointment that the story lines did not follow what people had fantasized about over the last two years. Johnson disappointed a lot of people's plot expectations by wrenching this ship in a different direction. That's not a convincing criticism to me.
And I thought that Rose was a lovely addition to the cast of characters. I liked her interactions with Finn. I liked the complexity of the relationships. I was partial to the addition of Asian featured characters, as the mother of two Asian children. I adored the way the small child at the end just reached for the broom and it leaped into his had - no struggle, no effort. This is an interesting prefiguring of things to come, imo.
I was also very moved by the power of story and myth and hope that the movie is founded on. The scene at the end with the small children, playing a game with home made action figures, in which courage and sacrifice are central, was a lovely summing up of what the whole damn thing was about.

As Star knows from some off line discussions of Rogue One, however, I lack much ability to obtain critical distance from the Star Wars movies (except for the prequels, which i hated and have only begrudgingly watched and only once). My child and I have viewed all three of the new ones with huge pleasure, and have a great deal of difficulty understanding why others are critical. She had a bad day at school yesterday because at lunch all of her friends were dissing it, for reasons she didn't understand (one of them said that they should have handled the scenes with the force bridge between Rey and Kylo Ren differently in technical ways - we thought, jeez, how minor is that in light of all else) - she hasn't learned the social graces that are so liberally bestowed here about how to share a positive view in the face of critical comment without offense (one hopes, anyway :) )
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starexplorer
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I'm glad you enjoyed it, and that you had a chance to enjoy it with your youngling. I think Star Wars may be like a child for you in that it has your unconditional love. Unconditional love is a wonderful thing. I don't mean you don't have reasons for your appreciation of it. You always have thoughtful reasons. But as you indicate, there is an emotional connection in it for you that I have lost. Or possibly never had with as much passion and conviction. And add the opportunity to bond with one's child through it -- well it would be a shame not love it together.

It's different in the starexplorer family. And starkid, as K knows, is the most ardent exponent of the obverse position. But we all feel it to some extent.

I agree with you about the child/next generation thing. That was probably the best concept in the film. And I liked Rose. And I agree that the acting was good in general, though not as good as in Force Awakens.

Of course it would be a weak position to take that one had hoped and dreamed for one thing and gotten another. For me there was no issue of disappointment over where I thought or wanted the franchise to go. I had no idea, and no vested interest. The film just disheartened on multiple levels. I wanted to enjoy it regardless of plotting choices.

I didn't get a feeling of a vigorous thrust in a new direction. I don't have the scholarly Star Wars background to adequately respond. But that the force is no longer limited to the Jedi isn't new. Check out this list of Force-sensitive non-Jedi, listed by species. (And what ever happened to that dumb midi-chlorian idea anyway? A rhetorical question.) And Rey being from nowhere? First, that may not be true. Kylo Ren said it, but we don't know his motives or his veracity. She may be, god forbid, his sister. Or not. Second, where did Anakin Skywalker come from? Basically no where as far as we know.

Where I saw it most differently was Luke. Mark Hamill's acting was (I hate to say it) as atrocious as ever. And impatient and impulsive? Why, it took him a week to even ask Rey who she was and why she came to his redoubt. An impulsive Luke might have blurted out the question in an instant. We saw how difficult it was for Hamill himself to accept the way his character was written. It didn't work for me either.

Kylo Ren: No. Didn't buy his conflicted soul at all. The pouting, the quivering lip. It was hard to take. There was precious little from him to believe in. Spock did it right.

Finn and Rose: I liked Rose. But the whole plot line there came to little. And the interest raised in the bond between Finn and Rey in Force Awakens was not developed. Starwoman points out that his exodus from the stormtroopers called for a character development that never happened. Yes.

There was a lot of volume, a lot of pyrotechnics. Too little substance. It is sad to me that this is what Star Wars has become.

But to parallel your comment, I may be excessively strident about this. I wanted to like it.
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Aja Jin
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number one good, A ?
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WARNING spoilers in my comments.







Just saw it. Heaps of dumb stuff burying a movie with lots of potential.

The whole "let's sneak onboard the big ship and turn it off the tracker" was done before, and done a lot better. Movie would have been improved if they'd cut that whole storyline (and made the thing shorter). They missed out on the potential for how the tracker worked -- were they tracking Leia's little charm that connected her to Rey, or were they tracking Fin, or .... A little mistrust in the ranks would have been nice. for a story-telling point of view.

As usual, the Empire/First Order just stands around watching like idiots while the plucky rebels attack. Why didnít the FO ships jump ahead of the rebels?

And the battering ram thing was assanine. Needs more Grond.

Kylo is still emo, even thought it's not cool anymore.

My prediction is that the "last" episode will be in two parts.

The scene with Luke at the end was well done, and the way the kids did in Snoke worked pretty well.
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Xheralt
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The whole "Kylo and Ren against the world" battle was one of the "fan-wanted" moments I alluded to previously. And the smug "Your connection? I did it!" by Snoke just was beyond belief. When did he do it? When, prior to her arrival in his chambers, was Ren anywhere NEAR Snoke for him to do that operation? Someone has long since needed to sit Ren down and say "Honey? This obsession with your parents can't lead anywhere good. Who your parents are mean less than what you make of yourself."

I liked Rose, but I was a little concerned that (a) she was brought out of nowhere to be a love interest and (b) she is, in the same movie, nearly (if not actually) sacrificed to advance Finn's story arc. If she survives, it will almost be worse, given how many others have died.

Luke pontiffing that "The galaxy doesn't need Big Damn Heroes any more"....as the entire frigging Resistance is whittled down into a handful that can fit into the Falcon without even crowding. If there was ever a time for Big Damn Heros, this is it. And with Leia's brief foray into godmode Force use, and Rey doing the same...

And why did he NOT just go in person, at the very end? The final result would have been exactly the same!

I'm also a little worried about the arms dealer angle. If the same corporations are supplying both sides, and the Empire has the most money, how can you even trust the weaponry? The Empire/First Order could easily say "hey, why don't you introduce a few subtle but crucial flaws into Rebel equipment for us?"

Overall I was disappointed by the movie. They are patently clearing the decks for the next generation. Maybe even the next-next generation, like that stableboy, the new Arthurian hero to arise from obscurity.
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hrhspence
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while not as bad as this, it does seem the first two movies of the latest trilogy were written by a nonunified pair of writers.
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pence

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Finally saw it. About a teaspoon of plot diluted by a lot of explosions. I did like the glimpse of the casino/David Niven pastiche though.

However it was a nice antidote to the big freeze we are experiencing. And a friend had free passes. I might have been really pissed if I'd had to pay for it!
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