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Envisioning The Atevi; Because I'm rereading the books...
Topic Started: May 17 2012, 01:28 AM (2,483 Views)
Hawksong
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I always adore that reference. Reminds me of stuff I've read about the historical Dracula *grin*

I'm sure he wasn't the first person in human history to pull such a stunt.

It's a very convenient way to gather up all your opposition/enemies in one place. Very efficient.

Perhaps it doesn't look so good on your tombstone later though. Heh.
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Xheralt
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The ateva earth seems to be remarkably free of natural disasters that would wipe out towns and colonies. No monsoons or tornadoes, no typhoons or hurricanes making landfall (or sinking ships for that matter), no earthquakes (or even tremors), maybe -- maybe! -- a mudslide somewhere, away from habitation IIRC. The worst weather we've seen is a t-storm that knocked some red tiles down in Shejidan, and shuttle launches do that too. No active volcanoes; if volcanic, Mount Adams/Grandmother of Snows is long-quiet. What a boring planet. :poke: :pie:
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Neco the Nightwraith
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On the contrary, I believe they've had violent storms along the coast (villages occasionally need assistance in clean up and to fix damages), there were a number of sunken ships in the lake at Malguri (which doubtless led to their ghost ship stories), and the Tasigin Marid talks about a "Great Wave" which obliterated their source for the famous and priceless blue glaze they used for their pottery, which suggests a tsunami of epic proportions, which are usually earthquake or volcanically related.

The great Divide is surely a source of earthquake activity too, probably similar to the Himalayas.

I think we just don't see much of it because Bren hasn't seen much of how the "average joe" of atevi live.

And another thing:

Has anyone else become confused about the atevi color sense? I notice in Precursor that the atevi section of the space center (and Bren's apartment too, I think) is VERY black and white, whereas in other books I always got the feeling they had very rich colors to their surroundings, as all those carpets and hangings and so on seem to imply, with their hunting scenes and whatnot. Then in Intruder, the aiji's residence is described as being painfully white in all the rooms but the nursery, which is painted a cheerful yellow. They certainly seem to dress in rich colors.

(And I'm reminded that Manadgi, I think, was the one who commented on white being the color of death.)
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Xheralt
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Yes, but mostly minor damage; nothing like a whole village being absolutely flattened. And yes there was the Great Wave, but also think about how far back in antiquity that was. I'm not saying they never happen, but very, very, very infrequently. What we think of as a yearly, or ten-year, or even a 100-year event happens there maybe once in thousands of years. Exceedingly stable, compared to our earth. Storms at sea, yes. But nothing "organized" like a hurricane, or sustained, with a track that proceeds inland -- at least, not that Bren (and we) have seen record of.

EDIT/addendum: color.

:cherryh: surprised me here. I see no reason why THE AIJI would choose the color of neutrality (or death, depending on how one looks at it) for HIS OWN HOUSE. Even if not featured, red & black should be at least *hinted* at in the decor! Or why not go with other neutral colors, grey, brown, beige, that don't appear in clan heraldry? I chalk it up to her bathroom construction situation.
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weeble
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Ah, but the lack of color in the station was pre-existing, not something the Atevi planned or even liked... remember there are comments about how the horrid extruded plastic color was very infelicitous and would have to be addressed.

If I recall, the Great Wave was only 2 or 3 hundred years in the past, so not terribly long before humans showed up. I think it was in Betrayer that Bren talks about the wave, but I admit I need to find my paper copy and look it up. Don't have that one on the nook yet! I think the lack of weather and tectonic catastrophes is just that Bren is rather preoccupied with the political storms and earthquakes.
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agricola
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There's a reference somewhere, in a speech by Tabini I think, about how with technology they can issue storm warnings to affected areas and avoid disasters.

We haven't seen any earthquakes, but there are certainly storms, including cyclonic storms.

IIRC, the Atevi earth has somewhat more ocean than Earth, which may mean more rain and storms, but perhaps a quieter tectonic regime (for the time being). Big mountains in the East must mean a subduction zone and accompanying volcanism and earthquakes, but the period of greatest activity might be long in the past in atevi lifetimes.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Or two land masses having crashed together, like the Himalayas, yeah. This is the mountain range that separated the East from the West for centuries, so it's large enough to be relatively impassable until the train was perfected. (And even then, wasn't trade extremely limited until planes were in the air?)
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agricola
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Still is limited. As cargo carriers, planes aren't ideal. BTW, there IS a subduction zone under the Himilayas....it's just really old!

Islands on Earth are formed either by subduction (and accompanying volcanism) or by reef building organisms (is there coral on the atevi world?). The Atevi world land masses are mostly island chains - a 'chain' definitely implies subduction and volcanism. Mt whatsis on Mospheira sounds like Fuji (a volcano). Continents are built over time by - basically - the gradual accumulation of those volcanic chains (that's far too simplistic, but still 'fair') in one place. Once formed, they tend to 'stay', because a lot of the rock materials they are made of are relatively 'light' (compared to ocean crust), so during collisions, they will ride up and over - (the Himilayas are so high because TWO mountain chain/continents collided and BOTH sides 'rose'. Still are rising, for that matter).

All this takes more time than most people can imagine - I had quite a lot of trouble with 'hammerfall' for that very reason - although 'a really long period of time' was posited, events involving continent building simply do NOT happen on anything like a human time-scale. Not thousands of years, not even millions of years, but HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of years....I don't care what your tech is, in that kind of time frame, you are extinct or lost interest in the whole shebang, long since.

We're talking Really Big Masses of Material, here. It just doesn't move that fast. Even when it does 'move fast', it doesn't move that fast.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Was reading Deceiver again, and marking the differences between Ragi and Edi culture, and found a reference to the Grandmother Stones:

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...Bren only remotely construed what Aiesi intended, but one recalled the monuments of the Edi on the island of Mospheira, the monoliths incised with primitive, slit-eyed, slit-mouthed faces and the hint of folded arms: the Grandmother Stones,left behind-one could only imagine the trauma...

Deceiver, page 156


I seem to have lost the reference that said the Edi dressed in bright colors... I'll find it later.

And a few other tidbits I made mark of:

Quote:
 

Only the chief lords in a gathering sat to meet, in Ragi culture. Among Edi there was no such distinction. Every person present was entitled to speak on equal footing...

...The Grandmother of the Edi, whose name was Aieso, was a lady of considerable girth, but like most Edi folk, too, small of stature. The weathering of years of sun and wind and the softness of her well-padded body allowed deep wrinkles below her chin. She was a plump, comfortable lady- until one looked in her eyes...

Deceiver, page 151


A quote on page 139 describes Baiji as bowing deeply with his hands clasped to his forehead in profound apology (I throw that in because the mannerisms interest me).

And some description of Lord Geigi:

Quote:
 

Geigi's eyes, deep set in, for an ateva, an extraordinarily plump face, were both quick and thoughtful.

Deceiver, page 73


Does anyone find Lord Geigi a great character? If he were real, I think I'd like to meet him. He sounds like a very awesome person.
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agricola
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Me LOOOOVVEEE Geigi! Cookie Monster! (I swear to God, really, he reminds me of Cookie Monster, except Geigi's 'cookies' are modern tech items).


I do realize that this only 'works' on one level, and on all other levels it's silly to ridiculous, but still. There you are.

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Xheralt
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A comment made by Joe in the Bradbury thread (of all places...)
joekc6nlx
 
Herself has already answered the question about whether or not humans could find the atevi home world. Wherever the accident sent the Phoenix to, the atevi universe was not the same universe as ours. IOW, unless humans or atevi could duplicate the exact same sequence of events, the chances of ever having an Earth/Atevi alliance are vanishingly small.

What She actually said was that the Earth of Alliance/Union was not the same Earth that Phoenix came from. To the manifest dissapointment of many. There *is* an Earth, however, even if neither of them are "ours" -- being fictional. As to whether or not Mospheirans and Phoenix crew will ever be reunited with the planet of their birth, that's an open question. We'd have to learn what sort of stardrive accident actually happened before we figure out if it's either reproducible or reversible. I have a theory (that I'm not absolutely married to) that would prevent that, but it's a sort of space-operatic PFM plot device; :cherryh: wouldn't do that, so that makes it unlikely, however much I feel it fits the observed situation
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Just found an early Invader reference to Geigi: Sidi-ma was calling him a melon, or a melon head. :P

"...full of seeds and pulp!"
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Somewhere I mentioned not remembering if Tano and Algini had ever been physically described.

I was doing a reread of Invader, and found a brief description of Algini, literally just a passing mention that he was "broad shouldered".

In Betrayer, Tano is apparently shorter than Algini.

Those are literally the only physical descriptions of them I've found so far, apart from a few facial expressions and mannerisms.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Do you think it's possible that atevi have a keener sense of smell than humans?

It has long been a theme (according to Bren) that bathing is important among atevi, not only as a social activity, but because humans smelled different, which is interesting when you consider that, with the average human sense of smell, we don't smell that much at all unless we've been working hard and getting sweaty (or unless you stick your nose in some truly personal places, which no one does in polite society... I hope...)

AHEM. SPOILER ALERT. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK


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With this recent excerpt of the new book (available on Amazon) Cajeiri comments on the "perfume" of humans, which makes him sad because the lack of it only reminds him that his associates have returned to the station. Seems an odd thing to say, if everyone is bathed and clean and relatively "low smell" at the moment.

Does anyone else think a keener sense of smell might be the case?
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Kokipy

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Yes, that makes good sense. Their eyesight is better particularly in the dark, and it would. Or surprise me if their sense of odor is also stronger. We should as we reread look for evidence of this:)
Neco, I think you may be CJC's closest reader :)
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