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| Envisioning The Atevi; Because I'm rereading the books... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2012, 01:28 AM (2,484 Views) | |
| Eupathic Impulse | May 28 2012, 07:49 PM Post #16 |
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Senior Bujavid Security
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What colour is their blood? And do they also have pus? What colour/consistency would atevi pus be? We never get a description of an atevi pimple bursting or anything. Maybe their skins don't even get pimples or abscesses. Now THAT would be weird. |
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| Neco the Nightwraith | May 28 2012, 07:57 PM Post #17 |
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Living the Right Life
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Can't say about the other bodily fluids. But presumably if a species can get sick, then it's more than possible that they can suffer infection. Didn't a man in Inheritor suffer a long illness that left him rather wasted? (Was he the director of a shuttle parts manufacturer? I think I remember Bren making his speech about that time.) |
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| Eupathic Impulse | May 28 2012, 08:14 PM Post #18 |
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Senior Bujavid Security
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Yeah, you're right. Red blood it is. Kind of boring though. Maybe they could have blue urine, though, the colour of that sterile blue fluid they use in maxi-pad TV commercials. With petroleum-scented sweat, who knows? |
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| griffinmoon | May 29 2012, 12:36 AM Post #19 |
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Ranger
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EI nadi: There is a distinct correlation in biology stated in Foreigner. Similar biological processes will present similar results. On that basis, I'd say that your inclination for visibly significant differences is just a dream. As to things like acne, infections, pus etc. I'd hazard they get/have such things since they are, after all, living systems. Such things would be harder to see because of their coloration (as opposed to the average white person, say). Perhaps it's just that :cherryh: obviously doesn't feel the need to go into such things. |
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| hrhspence | May 29 2012, 01:08 AM Post #20 |
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Hani Assassin
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I think it would be funny to have some of these growing up difficulties with Cajeiri; we don't see pimples on adults after all. |
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| Eupathic Impulse | May 29 2012, 04:28 AM Post #21 |
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Senior Bujavid Security
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And what colour do mecheiti poop? Someone must need to "muck out" the stables... I suppose it would be too self-indulgent to imagine it as sparkly rainbow poop like that of a unicorn. |
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| Neco the Nightwraith | Jun 1 2012, 06:45 AM Post #22 |
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Living the Right Life
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Has anyone ever wondered about atevi evolution? (I don't suppose they study that do they? Have any atevi really looked at themselves and asked how they got that way? Are there lying around, somewhere, atevi fossils? Or have they inhabited places for so long there just isn't any more of that evidence left? I mean, wasn't the Malguri guestbook filled with names, some dating back 2000 years? That's a long time to have a guestbook, never mind a fortress, so they aren't prone to just abandoning places...) They say humans evolved several key things in body structure to enable one major task: bipedal running. And not your average athlete's running. Running for survival because if you didn't run you didn't catch food kind of running. And the various documentaries I watched seemed to think they evolved that because the forests had retreated, and it was easier to traverse, keep watch, keep cool, etc on the resulting savannah. I wonder if atevi had similar factors to make them the way they are? *wistful sigh* I :salad: atevi. |
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| bmills | Jun 1 2012, 07:37 AM Post #23 |
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Ordinary Household Retainer-- *or is he?*
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Humans know about evolution and they've been on this planet for a couple hundred years, so I'm sure Atevi are aware of the concept. But whether their psychology and preoccupation with associations would make them more or less interested in the idea is another question. They do seem to take an interest in their family trees, but whether that would make them more or less receptive to the idea of being related to animals is yet another question. They seem as prone to superstition as humans, many of whom are still opposed to the idea of evolution for religious reasons. You know, as I write this I'm stunned to realize that there's been no mention at all of Atevi religion. Philosophy and folklore and superstition, yes, but not a single reference to religion that I can recall. It's not a part of my life or part of most science fiction, so I never missed it. (In life or in the novels.) Oh, and the likelihood of creatures on another planet evolving to resemble humans to this degree is just about zero anyway, so I don't think there is a logical explanation as to how that might have happened. One of my favorite books is Stephen J Gould's Wonderful Life, in which he argues that there's such a degree of variation and randomness in the process that even if you started life on earth over again with exactly the same conditions, it's almost impossible for the same creatures to have evolved. If a particular cosmic ray had hit a certain bacterium a few angstroms to the left 3 billion years ago we might all have ended up chlorine breathers, a tyranosaur steps on a certain shrew 90 million years ago and no primates survive the meteorite, etc. (Those are my examples, not his.) |
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| Neco the Nightwraith | Jun 1 2012, 09:12 AM Post #24 |
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Living the Right Life
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Ah, but it's sci-fi, and speculation anyway, so I'm having fun. You can't help but think that there has to be some form of structural similarity. The bones would say it all. I thought religion was an advanced form of superstition? It had to start somewhere. Perhaps numbers are their religion. And they do have a form of fortune telling, based on the number counting (however they gather their numbers, be it from events in the heavens, or the weather, or cloud formation...) There's always people sending Bren their "predictions". Mospheira however... Bren says "God" in moments of stress or surprise. Do THEY have religion? Being human, it's quite likely; there's always some group who don't quite catch on. The ship folk don't seem to have much in the way of religion that I could see. Ramirez's funeral was very utilitarian, so perhaps religion was dropped for the sake of simplicity in a working environment. Also, I see occasional mentions of gods (usually in a negative sense) made by atevi (Tabini was one, I think). So perhaps there had been some form of religion, but that which is now a very old concept and most likely heresy. Like Jago's midedeni.
And a few lines later:
So perhaps there's "religion", but not in the sense that you see it among humans. |
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| Hawksong | Jun 1 2012, 01:52 PM Post #25 |
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Well naturally there would not be religion in the sense you see it in humans. There's very little sense when religion enters the mix... I had perceive the 'counters to be the "religious right wing" of the atevi culture. They appear to be quite obsessed with counting out the exact most fortunate thing, which seems quite a lot like a religious person reciting whatever catechisms their belief calls for. As for the gods, I recall Tabini calling on them a few times too. When Bren does say "God" he almost always apologizes to any atevi present. That makes me think that religion, and the differences surrounding it, is one of the taboos of the Treaty - another of those words humans just don't say. The concepts underlying human religion - a desperate attempt to make a chaotic universe make sense - that, I think, the atevi could grasp. But even humans have a hard time understanding all the permutations those underlying concepts caused to be built up over the centuries. Since humans are not such good custodians of culture as atevi, we can't even explain it to ourselves why we warred over one god versus another. How would we ever explain it to true aliens? Re: archaeology. Atevi might have some concept of it, but it's more likely to be a hobby than a well respected science...if they have guestbooks going back two thousand years, clearly the book is made of tough materials that aren't prone to the same rate of decay as a human book from 2000 years ago. Archaeology is really the study of things lost to war as much as time: we go about digging up old stuff because we just don't KNOW what the Egyptians were up to, way back when. Those records don't survive, even the ones written in stone. And they don't survive well, because humans as a species don't treasure their past (or haven't until very recently). Generally when war broke out, the first thing the winners did was wipe away all evidence of anything good to do with the losers...and it's taken us centuries to figure that much out. I think an ateva, looking at human history, would be left completely bewildered and befuddled. Then again, most atevi have no use for human history as it has little to no practical application in everyday dealings with modern-day humans!! |
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| magicdomino | Jun 1 2012, 05:14 PM Post #26 |
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I've often wondered if the atevi have any monumental ruins like Macchu Picchi or Stonehenge. I think archeology was mentioned someplace, but that it was very small scale, the province of a few eccentric amateurs. Paleontology is unknown, but in later years, a certain young gentleman may choose to sponsor a search for the atevi equivilent of dinosaurs. |
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| Neco the Nightwraith | Jun 1 2012, 08:49 PM Post #27 |
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Living the Right Life
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I recall at least two cases of ruins being mentioned, the sister fortress of Malguri, and the abandoned fortress in Inheritor. And wasn't there a wall in Wigai'riin (sp?) that had been there for umpteen centuries that the local lord had knocked part of down to build landing strip? There were Grandmother stones too, but I'm not sure how they fit into the monument thing. They'd also be another example of a sort of atevi religion I think, the grandmother stones. I do recall now the bit about archaeology, but can't remember what book it was in. Another thing. Are they like the Egyptians, and build tombs for their aijiin passed? Who gets a tomb and who doesn't? And what do the Mospheirans do with the undoubtedly present atevi graveyards on the island? (Unless, of course, that culture practiced cremation...) The Bu-javid building itself fascinates me. As an ancient structure, it has undergone A LOT of remodeling over the centuries. |
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| bmills | Jun 1 2012, 10:20 PM Post #28 |
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Ordinary Household Retainer-- *or is he?*
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Bren has found this to be true. And when I said the Atevi never mention religion, I forgot that they exclaim "gods less fortunate," so apparently they at least used to observe some dieties. As for ruins, humans thought they were just old junk and nobody bothered to hack through the Amazon to find them, until Pompeii caused a sensation in the 1700s. Maybe the Atevi still haven't generated much interest in theirs, so they're lying around in forgotten corners. |
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| Xheralt | Jun 2 2012, 05:08 AM Post #29 |
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More likely, they don't let things go the way we do. Atevi probably still *live* in their Machu Picchu (it's called Malguri... :atwink) |
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| Neco the Nightwraith | Jun 2 2012, 08:20 AM Post #30 |
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Living the Right Life
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Humans were also prone to charging in and wiping out other humans, all for the sake of one cause or another. I don't think atevi were as inclined to mass murder like that. Although I seem to recall a reference to an ancient banquet being mowed down by archers hiding in the shadows... |
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