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Envisioning The Atevi; Because I'm rereading the books...
Topic Started: May 17 2012, 01:28 AM (2,482 Views)
Neco the Nightwraith
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Okay, when I'm thinking about it, I LOVE to put together images of what the atevi look like, so I've been trolling for descriptions, and found various quotes.

"He's at least a head taller than me," Ian's voice said, "mostly like us, but incredibly strong. His skin is as black as space, his eyes are narrow and his nose is kind of arched, flat to the face, he frowns, you can tell that...."
-Foreigner (paperback), page 55

I dunno about you, but I'm picturing a less "human" type profile (with a bridged nose and fleshy protuberance), and more of a cat-like visage, what with the description of the nose. Dare I say somewhat like the Na'vi? (Yes, I am a dork.)

Another quote I liked:

The native beckoned to him, once, twice, unmistakeably, to get up. Impossible not to recognize the intelligence, the purpose, the civilized nature of the native, who was black as night, with a face not by any remotest kinship human, but sternly handsome in its planes and angles.... It was imposingly tall- more than a head taller- and broad-shouldered.
-Foreigner, page 50

A hard, strong grip closed on his arm. He looked around in startlement at the intruder- no one in his life had ever laid hands on him with that intimation of force and strength.
-Foreigner, page 51

Powerful grip, which he says was too strong to fight to any advantage.

Then, later, from the native's point of view:

The moon-man wiped his face and there was blood, most evidently blood, red as any man's, running from its nose- a flood of life, broken forth by the running and the climbing he had forced it to do.
-Foreigner, page 58

So, atevi have red blood too. I think it's also confirmed in any number of places in the other books, but that's the first mention of it.

And later on, and description of Banichi:

Banichi turned the lights on and came back, atevi, black, smooth-skinned, his yellow eyes narrowed and his heavy jaw set in a thunderous scowl.
-Foreigner, page 67

On the next page he was described and standing over Bren with his huge arms folded. So, considerable breadth and bone structure, thickly muscled. Large jaw, which may indicate style of dentition or just that he's male. I especially love the description of his black, yellowed face being as impassive and powerful as a graven god's. Shall we chance high, broad cheekbones perhaps?

Hair is also described as straight, glossy and black in a number of places.

Does anyone else want to join in my game? :D Perhaps the artistically inclined can attempt a few portraits of our favorite salads. I'm still skimming and reading. XD
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Busifer

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A general observation that I have made is that the atevi have changed from looking rather unlike humans in the first books - remember the tent scene where Bren realises how curves as seen covered in clothes corresponds to anatomy? My impression then was that the atevi was rather different from us - to it mainly being a difference in stature, instincts and culture in the latter.

I love the Foreigner books but they have become less and less about the alien and how we handle it and more and more like a science fiction West Wing.
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Hawksong
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I might take a stab at sketching some atevi. Being only five books into the series, I can't speak to how alien/not-alien things get. Bren most certainly identifies *much* more with the atevi than with the "ship humans" or his own birth culture.

I think (though I may of course be wrong) that part of what's being explored is not necessarily how "alien" the atevi are...but rather how alike human and atevi are, have been, are becoming. I think another idea being dealt with is that notion of "the interface" of communication. That interface doesn't just exist between alien and human, or differing human cultures. Really - and maybe in further books as I read Bren will think of this, but I've thought of it already - Bren's got a talent for translation but even MORE so, he has a talent, a positive gift, for thinking like an alien. Larry Niven pointed out that anyone who can speak well (diplomatically) to another person, should be able to speak to aliens. His point was that it's a mindset: the tolerance to accept that others are not like yourself; the adaptability to see their side of things, using their frame of reference rather than your own; and the flexibility to balance between both worlds: your own culture/thought and the "alien" culture/thought.

And as Niven pointed out: every one of us is an alien to anyone not inside our skulls. Telepathic humans would be terrible diplomats; they'd be used to everyone being able to read their mind!

So it's interesting to see Bren struggle with that interface, that's what keeps me reading. The tension never goes away, and never will, unless Bren begins to literally take the atevi for granted and they no longer strike him as in any way unusual or different. If he ever does become so much atevi that humans are odd to him: he loses his value as paidhi, for one...

Anyway, off that topic and back to the image thing. Sorry, I get sidetracked easily when it's before breakfast...!

I can make a stab, as I said, at sketching a few atevi. I'm not sure how or where to upload such for this site, so I might just upload the images to my DeviantArt account and post the link here, once I have something to show. Would that be all right?
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Busifer

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Hawksong, I agree that the scope might not be how we handle the alien; more like an exposition in the power of communication but in the latest suite of books Bren gets more upset by human behaviour than by atevi and indeed he is not a paidhi anymore - he's a mainland noble, by all practical means. That is the evolution at which I point and it has shifted the tension points in regards to where the were in the first handful of books.
If this continues is for us to see - I envision a dramatic toss-up in the books to come :baji
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bmills
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Since Cherryh's physical descriptions tend to be scant (can anyone think of a way to tell Banichi from Tabini?), I've settled upon the image from the early book covers: big black humans with gold eyes. Except for the pointy ears. Where do the artists get that? I'm pretty sure that's not in the text anywhere.
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Busifer

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bmills,May 17 2012
05:15 PM
Since Cherryh's physical descriptions tend to be scant (can anyone think of a way to tell Banichi from Tabini?), I've settled upon the image from the early book covers: big black humans with gold eyes. Except for the pointy ears. Where do the artists get that? I'm pretty sure that's not in the text anywhere.

Hmn, Tabini is said to have very pale eyes - makes people uncomfortable. Also he is said to be very tall, so I've thought of him as taller even than Banichi but perhaps a bit thinner (not THIN, but thinner than Banichi, lol).
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Hawksong
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I'd agree with Busifer...when I imagine Tabini, I see a swimmer's build. Plenty of muscles, but toned muscle, if that makes sense.

Banichi I see as being probably a bit broader in the shoulder than Tabini. Perhaps not as tall, but only a few inches difference; they're both imposingly tall compared to Bren of course.

I also imagine Tabini's face as being leaner, almost wolfish, and Banichi has having that classic strong jaw of old Hollywood. Sort of a Clark Gable jaw, if you know what I mean.

Jago on the other hand I see as having a very strong face, the kind of face a human might not find attractive on his own species. Not delicate features, but very alive features. High cheekbones are a given. I imagine she has arched, lovely eyebrows. I don't know why, but that's how my mind paints her. And her hands are long fingered, almost elegant but not languid.

I see Ilisidi as having very fine features. Delicate, but delicate like a pinnacle of rock carved by time. A strong jaw, a stubborn chin. Almost like a Katharine Hepburn face, that kind of no-nonsense expression. Definitely not a sweet old grandma kind of face!!

I see Damiri as being somewhere between the delicate and the strong: as having the "stature" that Jago has, but all the hard edges are worn away. Not worn: polished. I see Damiri as being a very finely polished lady, a woman of sensibility but also a woman of great status who is not about to let anyone forget who and what she is. Very regal in her bearing, just as Ilisidi; but with less of the obvious stubbornness. It pleases Ilisidi to show her independent, stubborn nature: it pleases Damiri to let her enemies underestimate her, to take her for a meek and yielding fool. All the better to catch them at their tricks and destroy their notions of holding power over her! To me, where Jago is the honed sword and Ilisidi is the carved pillar of stone, Damiri is instead the dagger hidden in a silk sleeve.
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Aja Jin
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Every time I see Shaquille O'Neil (who is a enormous fellow), I think of Atevi/Human scale.

Here's another example.... On the left 7' 6" Yao Ming (basketball) and on the right Lewis Hamilton (Formula 1)

Posted Image


Here's a random Shaq pic with some dood:

Posted Image
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Neco the Nightwraith
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Has anybody else noticed that as the books progressed, the size of the average ateva has become more variable? In Foreigner, the only person of notable size difference was Ilisidi, but I didn't picture her as small as Bren. Now she sounds positively tiny by Intruder (incredible shrinking woman anyone?), and there was, in another book (Pretender?) a cousin of Cajeiri's I think, who was "a tiny miss", twice Cajeiri's age, but not much bigger than he was (Bren-sized! Like fun-sized, but Brenning. :P)

So, what gives?

We also have mentions of atevi who are overweight (I think Baiji was over weight? I know for sure that Lord Geigi is of substantial girth, because he :salad: his fine cuisine.)

They also sweat (quite profusely now), smell a bit (though Bren only mentions it as a petroleum like scent and then genteelly doesn't mention it any further) and can go pale and blush noticeably (although a lot less noticeably than Bren). I still love that scene where Bren made Banichi blush. :P

And what is it with smelly aliens? The atevi have a slight petroleum scent and the kyo smell like hot tar. How on EARTH does an organic body create a smell like that? o_O
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magicdomino

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I'm not surprised at the varying heights -- look at the height difference between jockeys and professional basketball players. In fact, it would be less realistic if all men were one height, and all women were another. As for Ilisidi shrinking, that may be partly old age, and partly Bren's perception. Likewise, the blushing and blanching is mentioned more because Bren's eye has become more used to subtle differences.

As for other species smelling like petroleum products, petroleum, like sweat, contains bacteria. Really, really old cooked bacteria. :whistler
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Neco the Nightwraith
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I just didn't think of them has having such an enormous range of height. Sure there were people Banichi's size, and a little taller or longer of limb, or a little leaner and not so broad, and Jago for instance was shorter and lighter in weight, etc. Especially interesting was the tiny miss of a cousin.

I guess in my head that's how I envisioned the atevi, being similar but not so drastically different as humans, which is why humans would have such a hard time telling them apart.
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griffinmoon
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I also saw the Na'vi the first time & thought "Atevi in blue". I also thought of cat faces for Atevi in general, especially given Herself's love thereof. There's a spot early on where Ilisidi is noted as "diminutive" at 6' plus--and I disagree with Lockwood's portrayal of her on the Intruder cover: she's shown as "diminutive" on a *human scale*. Tabini is noted as tall, thin and only marginally smaller in the shoulder than Banichi (who is noted as just plain large all over in any comparison to the average Ateva). Regarding "plump" Atevi:what I saw in my mind's eye regarding Geigi (seen in current human terms) wasn't what came to mind with the line "...as plump as an Ateva ever got..." in one of the more recent books.
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Neco the Nightwraith
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I guess the question is: "How plump do atevi really get?"

:P
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griffinmoon
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My guess: nothing like we do. Not even faintly.
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Hakkikt
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Fats & greases, like petrols & oils, are hydrocarbons, which is why old chip fat smells oily & also why hot chips & stuff frying smells good. The way heavy fuel oil smells good to some people.

Kkkttt! Hkkt 1356 [0556GMT, 2056PST] Mon. 28 May 2012.
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