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Destroyer Question: Number Of Colonists At Reunion
Topic Started: Apr 16 2008, 06:07 PM (3,080 Views)
Felicitous Sk8er
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Could this be an explanation for the discrepancies?



Personally, I had the very distinct impression that :cherryh: was simply making all this stuff up off the top of Her head when I asked. :atwink :rofl:
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hrhspence
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But the beta reader is supposed to catch that.
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agricola
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Jeimani,Apr 26 2008
01:43 PM

One believes this has been briefly discussed in another thread, but isn't there some difficulty with describing one's age when one has been subjected to FTL travel for extended periods? In :cherryh:'s other books, there are explanations about how space station residents' ages are calculated vs. how the spacers calculate their official, chronological age AND their apparent age. Persons who are constantly travelling at FTL speeds appear much younger than their official age. Most probably Bren is not as affected, as his space voyage only spanned 2 years. :UFO Could this be an expanation for the discrepancies?

Unlikely, since he was discussing his and Bren's comparative ages in book 2, and claimed then to be 28 years old 'as the ship counted'. Bren was '27' atevi world years old, but they calculated that Jason was two years YOUNGER than Bren, i.e., 25 atevi years (28 ship years).

Then the whole down to the world, build the shuttle (three years atevi), start building a ship, Ramirez dies, start traveling to Reunion etc etc - which is said to be about nine to ten years - and suddenly he says he's mid twenties AGAIN? Ship may not age the same all the time, but they don't get YOUNGER. (don't I wish that were possible!)

No, Jase has to be mid-THIRTIES in the Reunion sequence. I think it's an editing error. I'm in book four at the moment and there are several - annoying. At one point Ginny Kroger is referred to as Ginny Shugart, when Kate Shugart had just been mentioned as being in a different room. And later when Nojana has arrived in Bren's quarters (disguised at Banichi and bearing news from the shuttle) there is an entire paragraph in my edition where he is repeatedly referred to as Narana who is a completely different person busy in a different part of the residence.

Plus - relevant to the 'how many colonists' question - Jase explained early in book 4, that the ship was overcrowded (people doubled up) when Reunion was built, and they offloaded about six thousand people on Reunion (twenty some years previously) - and you can certainly double a population in twenty years, no problem.

And when Bren was talking to Ilisidi and recapping 'history', BREN tells her that Ramirez CONSULTED WITH THE SURVIVORS of the attack on Reunion before coming back to the atevi world - what the hey???

(p. 53 in my edition of Precursor - Bren is talking to Ilisidi:
'So. Well.' Ilisidi, her point made, continued. 'with these strangely trained children in tow (she means Jase and Yolanda), they went to this other station which had called and which had suffered great damage in their absence'.
(Bren)'Exactly so. Ramirez QUESTIONED THE STATION-FOLK THERE, and determined to come here, fall back to this base, thinking he'd find a large population and a thriving station. ..')

Although that certainly sounds reasonable - but then why all the controversy when Ramirez dies and lets out the 'shocking news' that there are survivors on Reunion?

Or is he making some kind of weird distinction between surviving COLONISTS and surviving PILOT'S GUILD (which makes no sense at all) or did they just flat LIE to the crew entirely, (telling them Reunion had no survivors at all) but telling the truth to Jase and the PLANET, that there WERE survivors although the station was damaged??

Which also makes no particular sense.

BTW, what happened to Ramirez' son and daughter? (page 138 in Precursor: 'Senior captain, a son, a daughter, both privileged into command training:..')

Not to mention the eight OTHER 'Taylor's Children' - also mentioned in Precursor p. 52, same conversation with Ilisidi as above -
'Captain Ramirez authorized the birth of a number of them...
(Jase) and the others...there were ten of them...'

So where are the other eight? Assuming Yolanda is one of the ten.

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agricola
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I guess you can tell by all this that I'm currently rereading Precursor!
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Surtac
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Bren was '27' atevi world years old

Do we know for certain Bren was counting his age in atevi years? I don't remember a specific reference, and I'm sure part of the overall issue is that we just don't have enough certainty around number systems and calendars in use (and how they compare) to be certain of anything. :HB:

:invert
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Busifer

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Agricola - Precursor must be the most badly edited of the Foreigner books!!! every time I read it I :HB: in agony... and it gets worse with each reading....
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agricola
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Bus - you are so right! I've just run across yet another reference to the 'ten' Taylor's children - mention is made of Jase and Yolanda and THEN Bren wonders why Jase never mentions these 'quasi-siblings' and what happened to the other SIX!!! Who the hell can't subtract two from ten and get eight?

As for differing number systems, at one point in the books it is mentioned that the Mospheiran's are on the planetary 'clock'. So Bren is securely 27 in atevi world years in books 2 and 3, and Jase is just as securely two years younger than that while being '28' in ship years. Base number system regardless, that difference is calculated in the same numbering system, no matter how constructed.
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Surtac
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and what happened to the other SIX!!! Who the hell can't subtract two from ten and get eight?

It's a valid result for that calculation if the 'ten' Bren refers to is actually in base 8! :rofl:

I think this is one of the reasons I prefer the A/U universe - the numbers are much, much more precise. :atwink

:invert


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pence

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With reference to Toby: 1) The Mosphierans are an extrremely healthy population: they probably have very little genetic load (I assume that the originals were screened/treated prior to the departure from earth's environs. 2)They did also take measures to prevent the contamination of the planet when they were colonizing via the 'petal sails'. 3) The physicians patient load may be modeled on times past, not the current outrageous USA NORM. My take is that he is a small country town doctor. 40 years ago in this country such a person would have had a half day off mid week - and practiced a half day on saturday, unless he were able to trade off with another md. Office hours were shorter, though that was ballenced by the house calls (remember them?) that most physicians made.

Doctors ALSO had time to talk with their patients.
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ready
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With all the problems that their mother had I would have thought that professional courtesy would have gotten Toby into greater discussion with their mother's doctors when she was having problems unless he was something like a dentist. One gets the impression that nand' :cherryh: lost track of the fact that she had made Toby a doctor in Foreigner, because one never again sees a mention of Toby's practice, nor that he had medical skills which he surely should have used (at least for Bren before he dropped him off on the mainland coast in Destroyer. Two years in space has to have been stressful to a body.) Maybe one could suggest to nand' :cherryh: that there are a number of discrete persons well versed with the Foreigner verse that could check for continuity and disconnects through the series.
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Pangloss

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Although that certainly sounds reasonable - but then why all the controversy when Ramirez dies and lets out the 'shocking news' that there are survivors on Reunion?


Ramirez was hiding that information, then it was revealed at his death, then Bren explains this to Ilsidi.
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Arianne_Luinithil
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But Pangloss-nadi, the implications of what the other honoured associates are saying above is that Ramirez already mentioned contacting Reunion before coming back to the atevi planet. :HB: :wacko: :hmmm:
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agricola
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Yes, the discussion with Ilisidi took place BEFORE Bren ever went to the station the FIRST time ever. Information Ramirez had presumably given to Jase, at least. Possibly even information Ramirez had given directly to Bren - we never see those discussions past the very first communications prior to Jase parachuting down to planet.

I do find the suggestion that Bren's 'planet years' are in something other than base 10 interesting - but I don't buy it. Too much is made of the constant issue of converting numbers from Mospheira and the ship, to atevi systems.

Since I live in the US, and we are STILL using Imperial measurements, I can be fairly confident that the Mospheiran human population is 90% or better certain to still be on a base 10 system, from sheer inertia if nothing else.



At the funeral, when the crew requests information on survivors at Reunion, Ogun mentions a list available of names, numbering in the 200 -300 range. That's a far cry from low thousands, which the NEXT series of books presents as the actual number.

Lousy editing in Precursor indeed. Poor Nojana gets called 'Narana' yet AGAIN later in the book, too.

Those 'quasi siblings' have been brought up in books 2 and now in book 4 again. CJC must have had something in mind for those extra Taylor's children!

and even if (and I believe the possibility to be vanishingly small) we are talking base 8 instead of base 10, that still leaves up to six people unaccounted for.

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agricola
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I vote for dentist. Or CJC forgot the medical practice information in book 1! I can't see Toby as a doctor - quite correct! He'd have had better communication with mother's doctors (what is her name, BTW? mother?) and we would have seen some first aid behavior.

Wasn't Jill pregnant in the Deana Hanks' adventure in book 3? That means three children total and we NEVER get names for them. Surely there's some 'back story' out there!
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magicdomino

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I don't have my books here with me, but did :cherryh: actually say that Toby was a doctor? Perhaps he was more of a medical technician/nurse -- someone who takes care of minor injuries and illnesses with the aid of some fancy equipment.

As for the excess Taylor's children, I figured that they were separated from Jase and Yolanda when they didn't fit Ramirez' requirements. Genetics do not guarantee results. If the other children were better at engineering than with languages -- or simply not that bright -- they were probably put into different training programs. We don't hear about them because they aren't particularly important.
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