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Destroyer Question: Number Of Colonists At Reunion
Topic Started: Apr 16 2008, 06:07 PM (3,081 Views)
Eupathic Impulse
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Re: the Mospheira population. I always took it for granted that the paidhi wouldn't see (and would take pains not to see) official exact census estimates for Mospheira, which in the context of a human minority on an alien planet might even be a tightly guarded secret. As atevi-human ties grow more close, real numbers might later start surfacing. In any case, nothing said under coercive interrogation is to be believed.

I was also under the impression that the population at colonization was more on the order of 200,000, not 2000. That would require fewer children/woman to reach the 7 million figure.
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Eupathic Impulse
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The most bothersome of the number issues are the age questions. The population issues can all be explained away by politics/mathematics/sociology in one way or another. I too am pretty sure that Bren should be in the vicinity of 40. Eventually, when Cajeiri is aiji, Bren will be an old man. At that point, they'll be naming schools after him.

Actually, I wonder if atevi parents name their kids with atevified versions of his name, considering the man'chi that flows to him. Like "Barani" or something. Or "Camero".
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pence

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How does the year compare with the terran year anyway?
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Busifer

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The different numbers on station population I've always put down to editing/memory mishaps + maybe misinformation/lack of knowledge combined with guessworks from the characters' side.
Like the different spellings of various names I've not let it come in the way of the story :atwink

I wrote this in another discussion I had on Bren's age -

---
26, going on 27 in Foreigner; then in Invader - that is some days later.
Then in Inheritor another 6 months have passed, which makes him 27.
Then 2-3 years more in Precursor (30), and another 6 years when Defender starts (36), and 2 years at the end of Explorer (38).
Destroyer, Pretender & Deliverer all plays out during a couple of months, at most.
---
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agricola
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You already DID.

But (fascinating though that is, and it is fascinating) that has very little to do with the number of colonists at Reunion.
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Eskaybe

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I've always thought there was some give.

Bren could have taken the 4.3 million Mospherians from the last "official" census which could be quite a few years out of date and could have taken the 6 million number from an academic projection of the population at the next census or the 200th anniversary or something of the like.

Can't explain the ship as easily, except to say they seem kinda secretive about population numbers. Its easier for an outsider to accept the ship's authority if it has a larger population.

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agricola
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Ship is secretive about EVERYTHING while atevi just don't TALK about stuff.

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agricola
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pence,Apr 17 2008
07:30 PM
How does the year compare with the terran year anyway?




atevi year vs ship year

I just ran a quickie -
books 2 and 3:
Bren is 27. We were told Jase was 28. In Inheritor (book 3) Bren notes that he and Jase had done some figuring, and Jase was TWO YEARS YOUNGER than Bren. (Or 25 in atevi years)

If my math works right, Bren at '27' atevi years, is close to or just at THIRTY years 'ship', that is, the atevi year is approximately 1.12 Terran/ship years in length.

Tada.

He should be OVER forty Terran years - barely - at the start of Conspirator, then.

And Toby is YOUNGER (mentioned in Inheritor) yet still has two children who 'walk to school' - so he'd still have to have married awfully young in my opinion, but not quite as young as I had assumed, in order to have children of 'school age'.
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Zen
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Walking to school on Mospheira might not be that big an issue.

After all I walked to school from age 5. So if Toby is 24 or 23 at the time Bren is 25, then he'd only need to father the childeren around 18 or 19.

Getting hitched young might well be the norm in a society that desires to increase its numbers.

The rapidity of American colonies expansion for example, is quite impressive and thats far more down to birthrate than the influx of new colonists even before the advent of modern methods that ensure increased numbers of live births.
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agricola
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If '27' atevi years is close to 30, then 'younger than 27' could mean Toby is around, say, 28 'terran', and could certainly have school age children who walk to school.

But if Toby had been, for instance, 25 - even if he married at 18, which in my opinion is far too young to marry - he would be very unlikely to have TWO children over 5 years old who were walking to school - AND he would be unlikely to have a medical practice of any description.

But if he's more like 28 - he is MUCH more likely to be a) through medical school and b) the father of two children who are BOTH over five years old. (terran/ship equivalent, that is).

So the information works.

But Bren is 40-41 now, rather than 38 - or rather, he is 38 as years are reckoned in Shejidan, and past/around 40 as reckoned by the ship.

And I myself have three children who walked to school beginning in kindergarten, so yes, I know they can walk to school quite young. But I assure you, they didn't walk to kindergarten without a parent monitoring their arrival. Even though they might THINK they did!

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hrhspence
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My grandma used to walk down the other side of the street to see if my sister and I remembered to look both ways on our way to 1st-3rd grades. She always thought she was sneaky and wasn't seen by us. But my friends used to say. "Who is that creepy old lady following us?" I would say "It's not a creepy old lady, it's my grandma. She thinks we can't see her."

"Oh, Ok then," they would say and pretend not to see her.
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agricola
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When DD3 was about ten, she used to come in the living room before bedtime and tell me, sternly, 'Can you NOT tuck me in!?' and I'd say sure.

and then I'd go in later and tuck her in, except I told her I wasn't 'tucking', I was just 'straightening the sheets'! (she bought it, I suppose, for she never called me on it!)

Anyway - Bren has a niece and a nephew, as I understand it. Possibly they are 'four and a half' and 'six' atevi - which would be five and nearly 8 or so, 'ship', and they walk to the neighborhood school, throughout the events of books 1 - 3.
Does anybody know what kind of 'medical practice' that Toby has?? Somehow, I think he's a dentist...

Not something subject to being on call or having weird hours. Maybe he's a dermatologist or a podiatrist or something. Do we know? All I know is that he golfs regularly and loves to sail.
and ski of course.

Doctors with that kind of free time are dentists, optometrists, or specialists in things like feet or skin or something that walks in during office hours.

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Felicitous Sk8er
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Nadiin, one hopes to make sense of these replies. The questions were asked in a great hurry:

Population fluctuations:
:cherryh: : "To a certain extent it's like "Watson's Wandering Bullet" ( :cherryh: then referred to Sherlock Holmes books). :grin (See YouTube video linked below.)


Agricola wonders:
Quote:
 
...Yolanda and Jase had classes together and studied languages - but Yolanda is several years older than Jase, and I can't see a 12 year old sedately accompanying a seven year old (about) all day every day in class. What gives?


:cherryh: : "This was a 1-room school. They did it all the time." ( :cherryh: then referred to her father, who was educated in a one-room school, where student ages ranged up to 17).


Quote:
 
First Reunion had about 300 survivors - when the news was first announced that the station had not been destroyed. Jules Ogun posted names of known survivors, remember? then it had about 5 or 6 thousand. Then it had 17000 - and where did they put them all on Phoenix then?


:cherryh: : "The station was partially slag so they had casualties." Herself was answering questions very rapidly -- we were rushing out the door & She was firing off answers of the top of Her head. I don't think She truly heard this question.


Quote:
 
In the next to last book, Jase mentions his age as being middle TWENTIES - what the hey??? He was on planet for close to ten years and was mid twenties at the START. He has to be late thirties - and Bren has to be pushing forty - when they return to the atevi world.


:cherryh: : "Time dilation" -- then :cherryh: laughed & rescinded Her statement, stating that did not work in this case.


Bottom line: discrepancies are mostly attributable to editing errors. Remember that Herself carries multiple versions in her head -- but we only read one: YouTube video.





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Arianne_Luinithil
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Felicitous Sk8er,Apr 22 2008
02:17 PM
Nadiin, one hopes to make sense of these replies. The questions were asked in a great hurry:

Population fluctuations:
:cherryh: : "To a certain extent it's like "Watson's Wandering Bullet" ( :cherryh: then referred to Sherlock Holmes books). :grin (See YouTube video linked below.)



:ot2 :rofl: at the wandering bullet...one just read an article on that issue at a Holmesian fansite yesterday. Said website's owner also had an interesting theory where Watson was married 6 times in total. (:knife: at thought of being married that many times)
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Jeimani
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Quote:
 
In the next to last book, Jase mentions his age as being middle TWENTIES - what the hey??? He was on planet for close to ten years and was mid twenties at the START. He has to be late thirties - and Bren has to be pushing forty - when they return to the atevi world.


One believes this has been briefly discussed in another thread, but isn't there some difficulty with describing one's age when one has been subjected to FTL travel for extended periods? In :cherryh:'s other books, there are explanations about how space station residents' ages are calculated vs. how the spacers calculate their official, chronological age AND their apparent age. Persons who are constantly travelling at FTL speeds appear much younger than their official age. Most probably Bren is not as affected, as his space voyage only spanned 2 years. :UFO Could this be an expanation for the discrepancies?
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