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| Chanor-ji Wonders ... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 17 2008, 11:50 PM (1,793 Views) | |
| Xheralt | May 27 2008, 04:47 PM Post #31 |
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Should have remembered that atevi typically don't back down once they commit. But I suppose that higher-ranked aijiin can override the Filing of lessers. I suppose the higher-ranked the aiji is, the more carefully the Guild has to consider the matter, because once Tabini (or Valasi, or the current top aiji) Files, there's no-one who could override him. And even if Tabini had enough power to override an Illisidi Filing (a debateable point in and of itself) even he might find it more politic to let it happen. |
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| agricola | May 30 2008, 05:37 AM Post #32 |
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To the geologist, the only possible question is - who drank half my beer? |
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| Arianne_Luinithil | May 30 2008, 03:23 PM Post #33 |
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Bu-javid tekikin
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Huh? Cola-ji, perhaps you should cut down on the beers yourself? Your comment ddn't make any sense to me as connected to this discussion. :wacko: |
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| agricola | May 30 2008, 03:56 PM Post #34 |
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sorry - just a little 'suggested addition' to xheralt's current signature line on the glass half full/half empty scenario - I agree with this:
Although I'm not absolutely certain about 'pay'. From events in various of the books, apparently 'aiji'in' have Guild on staff, who would undertake a contract from their aiji, with or without Filing - although Filing seems to be the 'legal' way to do it - and due to the man'chi those Guildmembers have towards their aiji, might carry out the contract even if their aiji him/herself were dead. HOWEVER - 'ordinary citizens' don't have Guild in their homes, and must go TO the Guild, and File, and then if the Guild agrees they have a case, apparently they get a guildmember (of whatever level) more or less assigned to the case. I get the idea the ordinary citizen has to pay SOMETHING - expenses plus per diem? set fee plus expenses? and the contract might be conditional (i.e., we'll keep trying for a week or three good efforts and call it quits, or whatever). Perhaps there's a sliding scale, or a time limit. From book 1, I get the idea that the Guild NOTIFIES the subject of the Filing, and allows him/her time to hire his OWN Guildmembers in defense. Motivates attempts at reconciliation!! Guild members within the man'chi of the subject of a Filing would know that there WAS a filing, of course - it's public record after all, and apparently they are also specifically notified by the Guild. But they wouldn't know who or when the attempt might be made. Plus I THINK I recall that there are Filings for attacks SHORT of killing - physical harm, rather than death (a 'broken legged' filing?). And Guild members can refuse a contract, or the Guild can impose upon them refusal of a contract - it's all pretty complex, as it would have to be to work adequately and as advertised. These aren't Mafia thugs, they are the atevi legal system at work. |
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| hrhspence | May 30 2008, 05:03 PM Post #35 |
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Hani Assassin
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I am not so sure you would have to hire an assassin. Perhaps you could file the intent that you personally intend to carry out. And since it is registered, you can take the guy out at your leisure. He of course could hire a guild member to protect him or take you out in a counter suit. |
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| griffinmoon | May 30 2008, 05:03 PM Post #36 |
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Ranger
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agricola nadi: One believes you have it right. Although the Agency is publicly identified, so the potential victem knows who's accepted the contract. In the case of an aiji level person, that person's staff might very well know the face behind the name that's accepted said contract. |
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| Serendipity | May 30 2008, 05:09 PM Post #37 |
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Avenging Minion
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Assassination of Valasi -- I think :cherryh: gave us a clue as to who's responsible. In the last book so far (I think that's where it was, anyway), it's mentioned that sometimes the Guild chooses the aiji. Could the Guild have acted on its own and removed Valasi, without anyone filing? |
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| agricola | May 30 2008, 10:16 PM Post #38 |
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Gee I hope not! The Guild seems to most strongly REFRAIN from actions, without Filing from persons with a right to file - even if they are 'high' enough that they don't actually FILE, I still think the Guild would not EVER take a unilateral action like that! As for an individual taking things 'into their own hands' - that's another matter I THINK would not happen - Why would a regular person think they could go up against guild? And generally we see 'regular people' FILING - and getting Guild involved. (book 1) |
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| griffinmoon | May 30 2008, 11:22 PM Post #39 |
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Ranger
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Guild has a vote in the aiji process, making at least a 3-part vote (Hasdrawid, Tashrid & Guild). The may be other factors in that vote, but nothing definately stated as yet. |
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| magicdomino | May 31 2008, 01:09 AM Post #40 |
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The Guild would not approve of amateurs trying their hand at assassination. There's too great a risk of collateral damage to both surroundings and innocent bystanders. In Invader, Banichi says to Bren after the assassination attempt in the tashrid, "Amateurs. I swear to you, it's amateurs will bring us down. I'm sure it's television. It plants foolish ideas in foolish heads that otherwise couldn't remotely conceive such plans. . . . Jago's aim was accurate. His damaged a historical artifact. That -- is the difference, among others." |
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| griffinmoon | May 31 2008, 04:43 AM Post #41 |
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Ranger
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Even Guild taking non-contract action is totally Not Done. Witness how upset Banichi was in the original attempt on Bren in his little apartment by the kitchens: there was no formal filing at all, much less an accepted contract (and he would know). Followed by the attempt on Malguri's lawn. Again, recollect how upset Banichi was when he found the assailant had acted out of personnel conviction rather than valid contract. |
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| Arianne_Luinithil | May 31 2008, 09:43 AM Post #42 |
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Bu-javid tekikin
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Probably a member of the Guild taking action on personal conviction without a legal Filing is like a human policeman or some member of law enforcement suddenly going vigilante: irresponsible, tarnishes the Guild's reputation and is just not kosher even if the nuisance removed really deserved it, and is thus distressing to his colleagues. |
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| griffinmoon | May 31 2008, 02:53 PM Post #43 |
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Ranger
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Arianne Luinithil nadi: Again: exactly. |
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| Chanor-ji | May 31 2008, 03:50 PM Post #44 |
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But when Banichi and Jago offed that one lord in the third book, I kind of got the impression that they did it at Tabini's private command and that the Guild was not involved. I also get the idea that Guild members employed by individuals (e.g. Cenedi by Ilisidi and Madame Saidin by Damiri) are within their employers' manchi and are free to assassinate a target of their employer's choice. At some point, Bren was musing that by saying two words to Cenedi, Ilisidi could destroy the entire Central Association. (Which, of course, leads to the thought: If Ilisidi did have Valasi killed, was Cenedi her agent?) Bren is always aware of what Cenedi is capable of if Ilisidi commands him to do it. (I :salad: Cenedi. He is the quintessinal aging family retainer who has been with the family so long he's truly a member of the family. He gets cranky, he's sarcastic, he disciplines Cajeiri without directtion from the Dowager, and he's like a mother hen with one chick when it comes to Ilisidi. But, then, I see Banichi and Jago developing the same relationship with Bren :rofl: .) |
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| Xheralt | May 31 2008, 09:48 PM Post #45 |
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Not quite. Higher-ranking aijiin are permitted to act pre-emptively against lesser Lords, or so I saw noted, without full formal Filing -- or with Filing posthumously. Lesser versus greater or noble versus commoner MUST file formally and openly every time. This probably involved conversation with the Guild, or assurances from one own Guild members that the Guild *would* sanction the Filing after the fact. I *imagine* the dialogue could have gone something like this: TABINI: So, it was Saigami's agents that assaulted the porcelains? JAGO: Yes, aiji-ma TABINI: If you have discovered this, others will soon. Banichi, arm of my vengance, how do you suppose the Guild would vote, were I to propose Filing on Saigami? BANICHI: They would wonder why you have not already, aiji-ma. TABINI: We must act quickly then, while the felicity of Tatiseigi's ignorance lasts; we must get to Saigami first. Can this be done? JAGO: Yes. BANICHI (After raising an eyebrow at his daughter): Yes, aiji-ma. (To JAGO) So sure are you? JAGO: One has wondered at the delay in Filing, aiji-ma. BANICHI: One thinks you have been waiting for this Filing with great anticipation, daughter-mine. JAGO: Yes. BANICHI: Shall it look like an accident, aiji-ma? TABINI: No, better to just shoot him, and be sure. JAGO: Yes, aiji-ma. Of course, if one's own Guild guesses wrong, they are out of the Guild and will be hunted down by distressed Guild members post-haste... |
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8:45 AM Jul 11