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| So, I Finally Finished Deliverer | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 27 2007, 10:49 PM (3,267 Views) | |
| Serendipity | Jan 31 2008, 04:16 PM Post #46 |
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Avenging Minion
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Many, many, thanks, Sandor. That had always bewildered me; I just couldn't understand why she was so clearly upset, and your explanation makes all the sense in the world to me. I'm going to print this out and stick it in the book so I'll have it for future reference. I hadn't realized that Geigi and Ilisidi weren't associates -- I had fallen into the trap of thinking they were "friends" and of course that doesn't apply. :flower: :cake |
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| byrdstation1 | Feb 9 2008, 07:31 AM Post #47 |
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I believe there was also a question in her mind of exactly how trustworthy the information was, you know, whether the paidhi was trying to mousetrap her. If I recall correctly, she mentioned more than once in that terse exchange about how "convenient" it was for Bren, Geigi and Tabini that this information turned up at precisely that point in time. We have to remember, this was a canny political veteran who had no doubt seen many -- both associates and enemies -- bite the dust and had no plans to join them. |
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| Gent | Feb 9 2008, 02:24 PM Post #48 |
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Placer of Wagers
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I also think that this was a major turning point in the relationship between Bren and Ilisidi. To an Ateva, there was no conceivable reason for Bren to do such a thing, EXCEPT for political reasons. Up to this point, I believe Ilisidi (much like her cousing later in Book 9), viewed Bren as a novelty. He was polite, he seemed to be very intelligent, and everything he did was viewed by her as political. Think of her congratulating him on the faint during his speech earlier in the novel. The Atevi are constantly getting confused by bren's doing things simply because he has a strong sense of justice. He is unrelentingly fair, and moves to save people without benefit. Someone later tells Bren that he "has quite terrified Lord Geigi" with this intervention. They don't GET it, and I think they end up getting sucked into a man'chi relationship with Bren because of it. This guy pulls Atevi into line behind him without intending it. That, or Banich and Jago sit on a rooftop and adjust the perception of the opposition. Usually with something like a .50 cal. methinks... |
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| peacekeeper | Feb 23 2008, 04:37 PM Post #49 |
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I've just finished Deliverer in two days flat."Is that anything to be proud of?", I hear you say.Well, it generally takes me at least a week to read the back cover so"YES", I reply.Great book.One of the better in the series.I found it much snappier and succinct than some others.No long back rambles and a solid storyline.I loved the way that Cajeiri has drawn on his Human teachings to escape his captors' clutches;and then drawn on his Atevi teachings in order to find his way out of trouble.This at least justifies Tabini's decision to send him offworld{if only to himself,if nobody else}. I would have liked to have seen more of the Murini character.It would have been interesting to develop him further and get the pretender's angle on things.I feel that for such an integral plot player,he warranted at least some dialogue in the story.But that apart, I look forward to the next instalment with bated breath. |
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| Tuuli | Feb 27 2008, 08:59 AM Post #50 |
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Yeah, that's how I understood it. It's been a while since I read that, but didn't Bren think that Ilisidi suspected him having arranged the whole thing about FTL - first the "leak" and then "finding" the explanation to it. I remember him saying to Cenedi(?) that he wouldn't have been able to do what she suspected, that is, translating the astronomical stuff from Mosphei to Ragi (as he didn't understand anything of it to begin with.) And I quite agree, Peacekeeper-nadi. It's one of my favorites too. ^^ |
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| Reading_fox | Mar 6 2008, 02:25 PM Post #51 |
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And another who's only just finished it - having read all 9 in just about a month. I liked the second POV although there were a few occasions when it seemed to be third person and then first, which was odd. I particularly liked the formal Ragi numbers, in some but not all of his thoughts, although again some more consistancy here might have helped. What was up with the robot? that was just abit Deus ex machina, for me. Was it being controlled by Banichi and Jago? or the ship? or? Other than that, really enjoye it, great pacing. I'm glad we've lost the retrospective how they are different paragraphs from the begining. Given that Pretender ended so well, I had wondered where this was going to go.... Favourite line: Probably right at the end when Cajeri phones Tabini with his tales of escaping and robots and, Bren thinks... it's all true. |
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| Busifer | Mar 6 2008, 08:48 PM Post #52 |
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Yes, the robot stuff felt affected. Yet when I reread Destroyer & Pretender after having read Deliverer I discovered it would have been possible to see it coming, so I guess she's up to something with this one? But until we get the answer to that question I'm in the deux ex machina camp. |
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| Reptile | Mar 7 2008, 04:06 AM Post #53 |
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"I'm in the deus ex machina camp." I'm not, although I do admit that the robots look like such a device when first introduced. I have assumed that the robots were part of a Geigi, Tabini, Mospheira, and human space station plot to destroy the coup leaders even if the star ship never returned. In the event, Tabini was able to use more "normal" means to regain control of the Western Association. But whatever their role, I suspect that robots and the implications of their introduction will play a much more complex role in the pattern of the plot as the series progresses. All the societies in contact are changing/adjusting very, very rapidly. Since the War, both sides had clamped down controls on the rate of change. This has been swept away. Rapid change opens vast possibilities and sparks much fear and uncertainty. It brings out the best and the worst of human possibility. Obviously, the effects of change are central to :cherryh: 's interests. |
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| Busifer | Mar 7 2008, 04:01 PM Post #54 |
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I agree. But until we actually see this (in yet to be published/written) in writing it feels very much like a d/e/m to me. |
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| hrhspence | Mar 7 2008, 04:55 PM Post #55 |
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Hani Assassin
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Me too, I was a bit dissapointed that the 'bots weren't discussed earlier. I felt that they were sprung on me. But, now that we know about them, they should prove interesting. |
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| Gent | Mar 8 2008, 03:14 PM Post #56 |
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Placer of Wagers
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I may not be giving herself enough credit, but I really felt that the robot was added in part to create the opportunity for that outrageous sounding report from the son to the father. Tabini's difficulty in understanding and believing his son was a repeated theme, as was the constant vindication and verification of the things Cajeri discussed with his dad. The telephone conversation sets a new bar for Tabini's expectations from his son, and emphasizes the gap in experience between the two generations. I'm wondering if there will be revelations from Tabini regarding the demise of his father. Tabini may perceive similarities between the relationships - he and his son, he and his father. It may be a source of concern for Tabini, especially if he removed his father for adapting too slowly. "Clean-fingered" Ilsidi called her grandson. I have no doubt that was sarcasm. |
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| AzureLunatic | Mar 18 2008, 12:32 PM Post #57 |
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Nadiin, have you thoughts about the identity of the new Guildmaster? I believe Algini may be the new Guildmaster, based on his statement about his man'chi upon returning to Bren-ji's household, and certain details of his bearing thereafter. |
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| Busifer | Mar 18 2008, 12:53 PM Post #58 |
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It would sure be a twist :atwink But I think not. Being Guildmaster is something that would take some time, I think - taking care of things and so on. Or is it a 'honorary' title? Earlier hints that no-one outside of the Guild knows who is Guildmaster, not even Tabini, implies it's not an administrative or official post. But I'm sure we will know sooner or later (tapping fingers while waiting for the fourth trilogy to materialise...) |
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| ready | Mar 19 2008, 02:22 AM Post #59 |
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Member Mathematicians Guild
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Azz-ji That is certainly the impression that I got, "Algini as Guildmaster" What better position to be in than at the heart of the association among the "movers and shakers" with intimate knowledge of the goings-on on the station, and access to the aiji-major, the aiji-dowager, the paidhiin, the aiji-heir, and Bu-javid in general, while still remaining free to act based on his supposed position as lower level Guild. :pie: :hmmm: :atwink Someone who has had "bad assignments" and was so quiet that he was assumed dead shows qualities that might uniquely fit him for the role |
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| Aelith | Mar 19 2008, 03:37 AM Post #60 |
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Veteran of the Messenger's Guild
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gee I could have swarn that they implied the reason the guild did not stop the insurrection of the bad guys was because the guild master was absent in space with Bren's household and they had no direction. It took the return of the guildmaster to take out the imposters, realign the guild behind Tabini, appoint a new guildmaster and then retire so he could be a true partner. |
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8:45 AM Jul 11