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| Fortress Of Ice; Not sure what to put here... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2007, 01:02 AM (529 Views) | |
| Hakkikt | Jan 5 2007, 01:02 AM Post #1 |
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Atevi Citizen
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Hi all. I read a Library copy of Fort_Ice over Xmas, and it was ok. Actually, it was good, but not wonderfully impressive. Not like the good old days of A/U, Morgaine, Chanur, and so forth. Not as good as Hammerfall-Forge, either. Not as satisfying as the Atevi books either. Tho' they are beginning to suffer the less power, more continual small-scale adventure that the Fortress books already have in spades. Newer perspectives from new characters were nice, but not stunning. Worth reading, but I still wish I'd read but not bought the first 4. I reread them before reading Fort_Ice, so I would get all the nuances properly, but it didn't change my opinion. I'd love to love these books the way I love her other singles and series, but it just doesn't do it for me. No-one died, there was a lot of travelling in the snow, Tristen did a good bit more teleporting, and the overall adventure was worth it, but not worth rereading or owning. I see what CJ means when she says it still needs another volume to finish it off. I only hope this means one more and not four more. We've weeded out enough plots and development. I'd rather see a new book set in a new place. Or more Hammerfall...which is not that popular, but I prefer them. Still, there's Cyteen II to look forward to. kkkt. ian, Launceston |
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| the mule | Jan 5 2007, 04:31 PM Post #2 |
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Paidhi-Aiji
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I'm just closing in on the end of it myself having had my copy for Christmas. I would tend to agree with you overall and I do hope that one more book would finish it. I confess I found I wanted someone to give Elfwyn a good shaking. he contrives to consistently do the wrong thing for extremely convoluted reasons which might be much more easily resoved if he just talked to people. Particularly to Cefwyn. As Tristen tells him; he lacks vision, even of the most prosaic sort. There are a lot of good things and some tantalizing little puzzles; such as Where did all the Teranthines go? |
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| hrhspence | Jan 5 2007, 05:52 PM Post #3 |
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Hani Assassin
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And who on earth would believe the Quinaltaine priests if they can't even perform any magic? The hold of religion is always that the priests have some secret knowledge or power over the believers and it is stronger than that held by the others. The Quinaltaine is an empty religion of control while the Brialtaines seems half way to the Teranthines which openly embrace magic. I almost get the feeling that we (the readers) are to redicule the quinaltaine priests and then recognize certain existing religions and draw the same conclusions on them. The overall effect is quite anti-religious. |
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| barleysmama | Jan 5 2007, 05:55 PM Post #4 |
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willing slave a a very bouncy kitten
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I'm curious about the fact there are 5 gods. Especially since 5 full blood sidhe came down from the north- coincidence of some sort? Are they the actual gods? Also, WHAT is under the floor of the Quinaltine? Still some questions to answer. |
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| Hakkikt | Jan 9 2007, 03:26 AM Post #5 |
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Atevi Citizen
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Yeah, I wanted someone to give Elfwyn a good shaking too! He’s very much in that teenaged “change the mind at the flick of a hormone” unsettled state. We keep cringing every time we see him doing the wrong thing for the sake of drama and plot. I would have preferred a more natural reason for him to decide – still, mood swings are a natural thing for teens and it is meant to be drama, not reality. >>he contrives to consistently do the wrong thing for extremely convoluted reasons which might be much more easily resoved if he just talked to people. Just like real teenagers, then. >>Particularly to Cefwyn. As Tristen tells him; he lacks vision, even of the most prosaic sort. Indeed. He’s only a kid. Like Tristen was – only Elfwyn is better equipped by having had a childhood. I just was just irritated by his "I have a chip on my shoulder so i think I'll run off" style. >>There are a lot of good things and some tantalizing little puzzles; such as Where did all the Teranthines go? I imagine they are a sect which has had its time and is fading, the way monasteries and convents are here in our time. The vast state religions of Egypt etc went the same way. Helenic Egypt with its multiplicity of gods and beliefs is a good example of a wide religious market place with a lot going on. Faiths rising and falling. Or India, or Indonesia, with Hindu, Muslim and others having violent confrontations. >>And who on earth would believe the Quinaltaine priests if they can't even perform any magic? Catholics believe Catholic priests who don’t perform magic. Given that magic and sorcery are equated with fear and danger in Amefel, I’d say it would be normal for ordinary believers to want a religion without any. Magic leads to danger and hell, the way [many] Christians associate witchcraft etc. >>hold of religion is always that the priests have some secret knowledge or power over the believers and it is stronger than that held by the others. Hmmm, not sure about that. State religion is a big habit [ie people always went to church because they always went to church], and has the force of law and so on behind it. Not being a believer I can’t say. I thought people went to church to worship together, not because they hoped to see magic done. For christians wasn’t the miracles and resurrection the magic, which people accept happened a long time ago, not recently? >>The Quinaltaine is an empty religion of control while the Brialtaines seems half way to the Teranthines which openly embrace magic. I almost get the feeling that we (the readers) are to redicule the quinaltaine priests and then recognize certain existing religions and draw the same conclusions on them. The overall effect is quite anti-religious Hmmmm. Never felt that CJ was being that didactic. We are clearly meant to be nervous of the Quinalt, they are the heavies in Amefel, and not above some thuggery in previous books. All the three faiths are represented from the outside in many ways, from Tristen or Cefwyn, ie from the PoV of non-believers in that faith, either unsure of what is what [Tristen – ‘why can’t I believe as they do?’, while still seeing the magic and sorcery around him and buidings] or cynically aware of the power and force of religion and faith [Cefwyn, who knows that magic and sorcery exist, but does he believe anything?] Being a cynical ruler and politician, Cefwyn may very well not believe in anything, other than Tristen being a magical force. Our politicians don’t have that luxury. There’s a case for being suspicious of religion there – there doesn’t seem to be any ‘evidence’ of gods or their works in Amefel, compared to the obvious presence of wizardry, magic, sorcery. But then religion has always depended on faith, not evidence… We’d have to live and be raised there in a faith to have a real sense of what its like. >>I'm curious about the fact there are 5 gods. Especially since 5 full blood sidhe came down from the north- coincidence of some sort? Not a co-incidence, I think. >>Are they the actual gods? Like a lot of legends, real figures, magical ones inthis case, who became gods in later tales and beliefs. >>Also, WHAT is under the floor of the Quinaltine? Still some questions to answer. Another lost buried Sidhe? I hope CJ answers them in the next AND final book ;) Ian, Launceston, 1423 Tu 9 Jan 07 |
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| Reading_fox | Nov 14 2007, 12:24 PM Post #6 |
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Fortress I has just arrived in paperback over here. I've read all of them in order. IMHO Owls was the weakest, Eagles better and Ice somewhere around the level of Time. dargons was superb. One of :cherryh: speciallities is the accuracy she portrays teenagers. The whole angst not wanting to talk to others comes across really well. Without Rowling's extremely annoying emokid descriptions. There is definetly another book waiting which I'll be eagerly looking for in the dim and distant time when it arrives. If only I had a grey space where I could nip through and get it now! I love the magic system in this world. How cool it would be to be tristen. or have even the slightest part of the wishing abillity. Definetly lots of questions to answer. Who/What is Tristen's enemy is the key one for me, but I hope the terantines are explained as well. My LibraryThing review is Here if you are interested. |
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| Serendipity | Nov 14 2007, 02:49 PM Post #7 |
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Avenging Minion
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I do like the Fortress books, but was very disappointed by "Ice" -- I thought that we'd finally get to see the North where Tristen came from, and instead had to spend time with a pair of teenagers. It would be nice, too, to have a general idea of the differences in the religions. And what about the faces at Ynefel? Is there some way to disinter them, or are they so firmly fixed in the walls that the building would collapse without them? Also, just how aware are these faces? They do seem to react to things. I'm re-reading the books (still on Time), and agree with the questions raised. What IS under the floor? (My guess is that it's a much older shrine with its own mysteries.) Where did Tristen come from and is he ever going back there? What is it with Tarien? This whole storyline has a sort of Arthurian legend feel to it, and I kept expecting her son to be the equivalent of Mordred. Not all Shadows appear to be evil; it seems as though Tristen releases the good ones at the end of one book. But there's also a mention of other Shadows which don't appear to be human. Are they, perhaps, more of the Sihhe? And what caused Gwywyn (sp?) to turn traitor? I think that surprised me more than anything. |
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| Reading_fox | Nov 15 2007, 10:27 AM Post #8 |
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Where did Tristen come from? Well he was Summoned, the question is who was summoned, and while it seems likely that he was the first Shide lord Bakkereth, Tristen has fought to remain Tristen, and that is the only name he owns. Its a fairly key point. Gwywyn is devaut Quinnalt, and Cefwyn's fathers man more than Cefwyns. I guess always favoured the northern barons, and struggled with Cefwyn's consorting with wizardry and the south. I didn't guess in advance, but it didn't surprise me either. I was very surprised how potent Tarien had become in Ice. In dragons she's much the weaker sister, focused only on her child. By Ice she's become fairly serious in her own right, and Orien even more so. I guess but there wasn't much to support this, that Otter's visits breached the wards enough to allow Tristen's enemy (Who/What?) through to enfuse them with enough power to break out. Certainly by the end of Ice Tarien/Orion/Enemy have become one. Just some more thoughts. |
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| Serendipity | Nov 15 2007, 04:15 PM Post #9 |
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Avenging Minion
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Appreciate it, Reading Fox. I knew Tristen had been Summoned by Mauryl. I guess I meant, was it just those five living in a fortress in the icy north, were there others, and any general information about them. That was a good idea about Gwywyn -- the fact that he was Cefwyn's dad's man rather than Cefwyn's is probably right; it rings true, certainly. And it explains it very well. He must have been increasingly disturbed by Cefwyn's actions, and therefore easily detached by the ambitious, conventional lords. And you're right, Tarien came into her own in the latest book. I think her pregnancy may have been what finally motivated her to release her own powers; after all, Orien wanted to kill her child. I'm still trying to figure out if Tarien is evil or not. They do seem to be keeping her under confinement, so maybe that's my answer. It's been a while since I read the book though and my memory may be faulty. But I really want the story line to swing back to Tristen and Cefwyn. Get Tristen back up into the icy north, if for no other reason than to show us what (and who) is up there. |
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| shlinas | Nov 27 2007, 11:04 PM Post #10 |
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Queen of All Things Cute
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I, personally, wasn't surprised by this. As a mother who has lost her child, I can understand the myriad emotions felt there. Now, Tarien's child was still ALIVE, but she was not allowed to be his mother. I can understand the rage and the wish for vengeance, as well as wanting her child to have his place a birth right. Those emotions can make people very powerful when pursuing that end. They would also have opened up a window for that amorphous "enemy" in her soul. edited to add: Also, pregnancy is a very self-focussed time for a woman. It was really hard for me, both times, to really get "out" of myself or to care more about something going on outside than what was going on inside. So maybe that's why she was perceived as weaker, because she simply was self-absorbed enough not to care about magic or anything else. |
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